Notifications
Clear all

V410  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS

VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
14/08/2017 10:41 pm  

It would be great if the codec could support v410 ( yuv 4:4:4 - 10  bit) in a future release.

Thanks


Quote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
14/08/2017 11:31 pm  

It's fairly trivial to add, though without any RGB conversion support.

What software do you plan on using it with btw? I'd also be interested in your workflow. Thanks.

(EDIT: I noticed you already wrote about it previously, though still curious how it looks like now.)


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
15/08/2017 2:01 am  

I do have a Magewell card that does an excellent job capturing  10 bit video namely p210 and v410.My first concern it to capture with the best possible quality to get a future proof archive and to have a competitive advantage in what restoration is concerned as I do get consistently better results restoring over 10 bit then over 8 bit. However to avoid the enormous uncompressed p210 or v410 files a lossless codec  supporting p210 and v410 are the ideal as the files get about 4 times smaller. Is where Magic yuv could come to the rescue, in this moment  I already use it to capture lossless 10 bit yuv 4:2:2 (over p210) and the possibility to capture  v410 lossless would be “the cherry on top of the cake “ as it will be the best possible quality I can capture still with an acceptable file size.

As typically my final destination format  is 10 bit x264 which does allow some compression advantages  I do have almost everything running at the same level.

 

In between for restoration I mostly use  avisynth  with the ffms2 hacked filters to support 10 , 16 bit high bit depth formats,  now I begun  to use avisynth+. Also  Virtualdub FilterMod that does  read and write most  high bit depth formats using the FFmpeg library. Sometimes I do need to use Premiere for  specific color correction for instance and for that I do have to use an intermediary format  as v210, 10 bit FFV1 or 10 bit X264 lossless as it reads any of them and if I only use yuv plug-in´s  I can avoid color space conversion  and save again in yuv 10 bit for further processing in avisynth or avisinth+ and final conversion to 10bit x264.


ReplyQuote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
15/08/2017 2:14 pm  

Thanks for the detailed info!

Out of curiosity, how does Premiere read 10 bit FFV1?

Also, could you send a sample uncompressed V410 recording (a few frames) for testing (either here or through the contact form, as you prefer)?


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
15/08/2017 3:26 pm  

How does premiere support FFV1 10 bit I'm not sure, as I think it does not support it natively. I have a lot of codecs and applications installed in my PC that could eventually grant access but I think that most likely it has to do with ffdshow and LAV Filters as the video codec is made available to windows and applications that support system-wide codecs over Video for Windows (VfW) or DirectShow which is eventually the case. 

I will put later a v410 sample, I think the limit is 2 mb so it will be a very short sample with a very limited number of frames.

Thanks again for your interest and looking forward to see magic yuv supporting v410


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
15/08/2017 6:53 pm  

I´m including a v410 sample but has the file limit seems to be 2 MB  the sample has only one frame I hope it´s enough. If not please let me know I will send you a link  with something larger then 1 frame


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
15/08/2017 10:04 pm  

https://we.tl/0kPMpbhoHT

 

You can download from this link a 4 s /100 frames v410 video sample


ReplyQuote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
15/08/2017 10:59 pm  

Thanks. Actually it's pretty much trivial to add YUV 4:4:4 10-bit compression support, so it shouldn't take much time to add.

Regarding Premiere, I'm pretty sure Adobe tools can only read 8-bit through VFW. So I'm afraid opening FFV1 10-bit gets dithered down to 8-bit. This is one of the reasons btw why MagicYUV has a tray icon and tooltip, so you can always check what formats are communicated. Apart from that MagicYUV doesn't do conversion from 10-bit to 8-bit, to avoid any nasty surprises.

So I'd definitely recommend to check FFV1 10-bit with some smooth gradients and see whether it gets dithered down (I'm pretty sure it does).


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
15/08/2017 11:30 pm  

If FFV1 gets dithered to 8 bit it will be safer to use v210 as an intermediary format with Premiere as probably 10 bit x264 lossless  will get dithered to. I will try to find out.

Thanks again,  and as I previously said  looking forward to see v410 support


ReplyQuote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
18/08/2017 10:08 pm  

BTW if you get to test FFV1 10-bit with Premiere I'd be glad to hear the results!


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
27/10/2017 2:08 am  

To test if a FFV1 10 bit clip will be dithered when imported in Premiere CS6 I tried a Spears_Munsil_Quantization 2160p 10 bit clip test with  patterns in 8 and 10 bit  and converted it to FFV1 4:4:4 10 bit and to x264 YUV 4:4:4 10 bit lossless.

After importing the FFV1 clip it seems  the quantization artifacts are visible in both half’s of the clip the 8 and 10 bit so it seems to prove that 10 bit FFV1 does indeed get dithered when imported into Premiere.

 However the x264 10 bit lossless clip  after being imported in premiere does not seem to have been dithered as the quantization artifacts are visible only on the 8bit half but not on the 10 bit half.

 

Related to v410 magicyuv support do you have any good news such as a beta or a rc3 already with v410 support. I am eager to test such a version if it does exist.


ReplyQuote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
25/11/2017 6:27 pm  

Hi,

I'm terribly sorry for dropping the ball on you here, unfortunately I had my hands full with various issues. My apologies.

v410 support is really not hard to do, I just couldn't find the time to do it just yet. I'll get to it now, and it'll be done hopefully in a few days (or less).

The way it'll be released is in a beta most probably, as it's a new feature it can't make it into 2.0. So I'll either make a private build for you to test, or simply make a beta.

Will get back to you soon, and thanks for your patience!

 

EDIT:

Regarding dithering: That's what I expected. FFV1 is imported through VFW, and VFW has no standardized support for deep color (at least, Adobe does not implement any), so most likely the ffdshow or whatever VFW codec that decodes FFV1 does the dithering I assume. You can test this by somehow preventing the ffdshow decoder to dither, in which case Premiere will error out when opening.

h264/x264 on the other hand is decoded internally by Premiere, so it can interpret 10-bit correctly. As MagicYUV never converts downwards (from 10-bit to 8-bit for example), the dithering issue never happens, but as Adobe doesn't support any 10-bit+ formats through VFW it basically cannot open MagicYUV 10bit+ video at all.

There are some developments in this regard though, namely discussions with NLE makers regarding 10bit+ format support through standard codec interfaces (like VFW) are on the way, but nothing concrete has materialised yet...


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
27/11/2017 2:11 am  

Ok. Thank you, I will be waiting for the new version


ReplyQuote
VFern3
(@vfern3)
Eminent Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
21/12/2017 4:58 am  

Do you think it will be possible to have in the near future the  v410 support . It would be amazing for hobbyists like me. Also as VDFM Dev is implementing a most broad support for 8/10 bit new formats there is more added value for both parts as each enforce the other .If done  it would deserve at least a new release candidate 3 with v308 / v408 and v410 additional support considering that p210 and v210 have already been added.


ReplyQuote
Balázs
(@ignus)
MagicYUV Author Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 207
02/01/2018 6:58 pm  

Excuse the delay, I was out during the holidays.

Yes, it's on the list, I'll get it done this week so you can try it out.


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2